NINTH CIRCUIT UPHOLDS TOSSING OF HEADLEY CLAIMS

The U. S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on July 24, 2012, in a lengthy and unanimous written opinion upheld the 2010 decision of Federal Judge Dale Fischer concluding that the sensationalist claims of human trafficking made by former Church of Scientology Ministers Mark and Claire Headley were meritless as a matter of law.

The Court of Appeals agreed that the case should be thrown out of court.  The District Court and the Court of Appeals were both required to consider Headleys’ allegations in light most favorable to them and resolve all reasonable inferences in favor of the Headleys.  Nevertheless, the Court of Appeals decided that judgment should be entered for the Church of Scientology International and Religious Technology Center and that the Headley’s should pay the Church’s costs.

The Court recognizes that the plaintiffs in the case were Scientology ministers in Scientology’s religious order known as the Sea Organization. The court concluded that they chose to join—and repeatedly chose to remain—in those positions for over a decade because, as the Headleys conceded in their testimony, they were committed to and enjoyed their work as ministers.  The Court also provides a thorough analysis of the First Amendment protections afforded churches in their relationships with their ministers.

The Church will vigorously defend itself against spurious and sensationalistic lawsuits aimed at smearing the Church in the media, of which the Headley cases were prime examples. We believe the appeals court decision is a victory for religious freedom, and hopefully will stop the practice of filing frivolous lawsuits against the Church solely to gain publicity and harass.

Scientology Religion

The Scientology religion was founded by American author and humanitarian L. Ron Hubbard. The first Church of Scientology was formed by Scientologists in Los Angeles in 1954. Today the religion spans the globe with more than 9,000 Churches, Missions and affiliated groups in 165 countries.

The word Scientology is taken from the Latin word scio, which means “knowing in the fullest meaning of the word,” and the Greek word logos, meaning “study of.” It literally means “knowing how to know.”

Scientology holds that Man is an immortal spiritual being. His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized. He is basically good, and his spiritual salvation depends upon himself and his fellows and his attainment of brotherhood with the universe.

L. Ron Hubbard discovered that a person is neither a body nor a mind but is a spiritual being, independent of both. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by applying its principles and observing or experiencing the results. The ultimate goal of Scientology is true spiritual enlightenment and freedom for the individual.

BBC Panorama screws up again!

"Reporter" John Sweeney, pilloried on YouTube as the "exploding tomato," proves once again that you can lead him to the truth, but you can't make him think. Watch the investigative video report.

Watch BBC Panorama: Desperate Lies!

Marty Rathbun - Pamper Soliloquy

Freedom Mag is laying Marty Rathbun wide open. This guy is a juvenile delinquent, and its gaping reality is fresh to the air now. His tanties cost $43,799,000 in damages for the Church of Scientology.

From Freedom Mag: “Throwing a fit in a courtroom and verbally abusing the federal judge until Rathbun had to be escorted from the courtroom.“

It’s best in Rathbun’s own words :

“The motivations for these acts are a psychotic computation for self-preservation: keep enough chaos and threat stirred up in the environment, make myself appear to be a solution to it instead of the instigator of it, and lots of people go down and remain in turmoil while I go unrecognized as the source of it and survive.” —Marty Rathbun

Or…

“I have proven a proclivity for creating some of the greatest catastrophes in Church history when allowed to have some leash.”
—Marty Rathbun

Its a forgone conclusion this guy is a psychotic, criminal who is petulantly pampering his delusionary world, or as Freedom Mag summarizes it:

“It’s a well-known mental phenomenon, mostly seen in institutions for the criminally insane or maximum-security prisons.”

This Freedom Mag is an ode to your existence. Take it Rathbun and read it and go and sit in a quite place and have a good hard look at yourself…

Freedom Magazine: Marty Rathbun’s Family History of Mental Illness, Tragedy & Alcoholism

Freedom Magazine: Marty Rathbun’s Family History of Mental Illness, Tragedy & Alcoholism

One man is key to the media coverage ignited against the Church of Scientology last year: Mark “Marty” Rathbun. But who is this man, really, who is making these allegations?

Who is the man who has made so many allegations against the Church, and if he’s lying, as so many Church members say he is, then what in his background would make him do so?

http://www.freedommag.org/special-reports/cnn/the-rathbun-family-madness-mayhem-and-mysterious-death.html#

Death case on Marty Rathbun's brother re-opened?

On his blog, ex-Scientologist Marty Rathbun informs his followers with what reads like law enforcement has re-opened the suspected homicide of Bruce Rathbun, Marty's late brother.

"I have been interviewed by a detective John Maciel of the Garden Grove Police Department. Det Maciel informed me that a private investigator working at your direction and you personally ran an operation to have the good detective re-open the 29-year old case regarding the murder of my dear brother Bruce.", Marty writes.

This conforms with recent revelations of Freedom Magazine that reported about the suspected murder last month:

"At about 9 p.m. on July 1 of that year [1981], two joggers in Garden Grove, California, became alarmed when their dog sniffed at a pile of concrete near railroad tracks in the 7700 block of Garden Grove Boulevard, some 25 miles from the Rathbun family home. The joggers pulled away a few chunks of concrete and found the decomposing body of an adult male dressed in brown shorts and hiking shoes.

Authorities identified the man as Bruce Grenville Rathbun, Marty Rathbun’s other brother. At the time, police suspected the body had been there up to a year, but they now suspect the length of time the body was there was shorter. Authorities continue to refuse to release further details, calling it a cold case which was recently reopened by a Garden Grove Police Detective."

Recent history is filled with cold cases that could be unshelved thanks to new forensic methods. Like in the case of Stepanie Lazarus, who was arrested for a 1986 murder last year, there is hope to solve the murder of Bruce Rathbun even 19 years after his death.

One would think that Marty Rathbun welcomes this investigation but his reaction to the re-opened case read like a series of justifications why he shouldn't be a suspect in the murder case. Marty, for example, writes:

"My brother’s body was found on July 1, 1981. I was working in LRH external comm, a very important responsibility during the life of L Ron Hubbard. I had not seen my brother because of work commitments for perhaps a year or more."

and

"[There are] folders, containing a number of sessions over several days after I was informed of my brother’s death – all detailing every aspect of my relationship with my brother and the devastating impact his death had on my life."

But justice need to be served despite personal emotional involvements. If not done yet, Marty Rathbun better comes up with what he knows about the circumstances about this homicide case.

Extreme Hate - phenomena of disgruntled Scientology ex--members

Former Scientologists Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and Tom DeVocht, all having been demoted and expelled in disgrace from their former religion, now rail against the man who removed them.

But what did they say about him before they transformed into embittered apostates?

First, though he now uses them as mouthpieces for his vitriol, this is what Rathbun once told a pair of local reporters about the leader of the Church:

“He is different than me. He’s in a different league… He’s got enough self-certainty and confidence that he doesn’t concern himself with somebody not approving of him… He doesn’t get all hung up and worried about that. I just don’t see it in him and I never did really. I guess that drove a lot of people crazy who were anti-Scientology, which is another reason why he’s been a lightning rod.”

Rathbun went on to tell them more about the character of the religious leader:

“You see, people describe him as one of the most honest people they have ever met, the most direct and that sort of thing, and he is. Because he just doesn’t care whether it’s popular or unpopular or whatever, he calls it like he sees it and, frankly, that is how he has been able to accomplish what he has accomplished. That is why people go to him in a crunch.”

And so he continued, this time with his characterization of the Church leader’s role in the restoration of the Founder’s Scriptural recording:

“He spearheaded this whole thing. There are LRH lectures going back to 1950 on the subject of Dianetics and Scientology. There’s now 2,000 that have been fully restored, mastered and released with the rest of them being done. But he saw to it that the whole technology for doing that was done… Now we are getting tapes that were completely wiped out from the ’50s, that sound just as if we recorded them yesterday. That’s the level of quality that’s been established on that line. These things to a Scientologist are extremely important.”

And finally, there’s the Rathbun declaration sworn under oath and filed with the Superior Court of the State of California for the County of Los Angeles:

“Over the years, I have witnessed innumerable personal attacks upon Mr. Miscavige, his family, his character, his integrity and his leadership by apostates and other opponents… Until recently, I have considered the individuals who have attacked Mr. Miscavige as merely embittered, spite-driven anti-Scientologists. However, as described in more detail below, it has recently become clear to me that these individuals are seeking more than merely the removal of Mr. Miscavige or any purported ‘reform’ of the Church. Their ultimate goal is to take over the Church of Scientology… They violently disagree with Scientology as practiced by millions across the world, and seek to alter its beliefs and practices to suit their own ends. It is because Mr. Miscavige stands in their way that he has been targeted by them…”

Then there are the words of apostate Rinder. He likewise wrote of the religious leader in a declaration he made to the U.S. District Court of the Central District of California, a matter of public record:

“I know David Miscavige personally. As such I know him to be completely honest, and sincerely dedicated to helping people. For what he has done to expand our religion, he has the respect and admiration of millions of Scientologists. And for this same reason, he has earned the enmity and particular scorn of those with a vendetta against Scientology.

“In the last decade, he has personally done more to ensure Scientology is standardly applied and made more widely known and available than any other single individual. After L. Ron Hubbard, the Founder of Scientology, passed away in 1986, the religion entered a new phase. While there will never be another L. Ron Hubbard, his death marked a time of potential disruption and upheaval, and Mr. Miscavige shouldered the responsibility for not only keeping the Scriptures pure, but for guiding our religion into a time of great stability and rapid growth. He never sought personal power or aggrandizement; he was thrust into the position he currently holds precisely because he is so dedicated to helping others through our religion. It is because he has demonstrated time and time again his integrity and selfless willingness to serve for the good of others that he enjoys the support of the staff and parishioners of the Scientology religion.”

Then there is Rinder to a television reporter about the leader of the religion:

“David Miscavige’s goal is very simple—to do things the way that L. Ron Hubbard would want them done and everything that he does is done with the orientation of ‘this is how L. Ron Hubbard laid it out and this is how he would want the Church of Scientology to be led, where he would want the Church of Scientology to be going.’ And that’s why I say that Scientologists feel a great sense of security and a great sense of pride in that because that’s what they want too. And it’s very clear what Scientology is attempting to accomplish and where the Church should be going because it’s all laid out in the policies that were written by Mr. Hubbard.”

There is this from Rinder speaking to the care Mr. Miscavige extends to others:

“On many occasions I have seen David go out of his way to help others. I well recall two times where I took ill and it was David who called the doctor and personally ensured that everything possible was done to help me recover. He contacted the doctor (both occasions were late at night and required tracking down doctors in the middle of the night) and ensured I was properly treated. It would have been easy for him to let someone else take care of me, but he did so personally, and would not leave or rest until the matter was resolved. These are things I will never forget.

“I have seen him act in a similar fashion with many others. As I work with him often, and know many of the people that know him, I am aware of the high regard in which he is held by Scientologists and those he comes in contact with. I have never heard a negative statement made about him by anyone other than those who seek to extort money from the Church. It really is that simple.”

And finally, Rinder on Mr. Miscavige and Church staff:

“I have observed through the years David Miscavige’s dedication to helping his fellow staff in the Church. It is he who raised the standards and conditions for staff members by insisting on constantly upgraded living quarters, dining areas and other staff facilities. It is he who insisted on staff enhancement programs, the recreational facilities being provided for the staff of the Church. Absurd allegations of slave labor being employed by the Church turn my stomach. I know the truth. They are lies and those who utter them know them to be lies.”

Then again, Rinder offered his personal view of the Church leader’s accomplishments:

“The statistics [of Mr. Miscavige] are incredible, one major accomplishment after another. Tax exemption from the IRS. Flag built to 20X what it ever was.

“The Golden Age of Tech which has ended squirrel auditing and made possible case gain and bridge progress for everyone in all orgs, removal of arbitraries which has flowed public up the bridge in record numbers.

“New orgs—starting in DC, but now with Tampa, Joburg, Buffalo, SFO, Gatos, MV, NY, Madrid and new buildings for London, Berlin, Harlem and more on the way. Social Betterment entities put on the map with real headquarters, the same for CCHR and Human Rights.”

And lastly, there is Tom DeVocht. The following are his words about the Scientology Church leader:

“LRH and COB. These are the only two one could actually say never give up, never go reasonable or agree with the stops and always, no matter what, get the job done.”

Shortly before he was forever relieved of his Church duties, DeVocht wrote the following when summarizing the religious leader’s accomplishments and the world of Scientology:

“The statistics are good—also broad—in terms of where the Church has gotten. Major victories and wins have been achieved.

“The quality of delivery (Golden Age of Tech) technically and administratively have been vastly improved and standardized across the boards. Facilities across the boards are better set up, functional and represent the Church and its activities around the world.

“New social betterment groups are opening up everywhere and are also more and more well known and used.

“The whole Church is in a new era of potential expansion and boom beyond anything we’ve ever dreamt of to date.

“This is because of broad, strategic and overall activities of the Chairman of the Board and activities that he leads.”

Since authoring the above statements, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and Tom DeVocht have become unrecognizable. It is a phenomenon that has been pondered since time immemorial and virtually every religious tradition tells of it—how those close to greatness will occasionally betray it for reasons known only to themselves.

So, yes, we might well ask Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and Tom DeVocht: What in heaven’s name possessed you?

Did you want the power for yourselves?

Did you imagine you were above the law and that somehow he would let you off the hook?

Did you think his compassion was a weakness and that you could get away with murder?

Of course, we do not expect answers to these questions and, in fact, you cannot really know the answers, at least not yet. For that is the supreme irony of greatness betrayed—even the traitors know not why they did it.

So for the moment, the best you can do is to listen for that small voice, that inevitable voice, the one that keeps asking: What have we done?

And while you’re at it, you might also ponder this in a moment of clarity:

“There is nothing very glamorous about the criminal, the breaker of his pledge, the betrayer of his friend or group. Such people are simply psychotic.”

—L. Ron Hubbard

"Kinky" Relationships amongst former Scientologists

Marty Rathbun & Mike Rinder

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The one inescapable fact that annihilates any semblance of journalistic integrity for Anderson Cooper is best phrased as a question.

How can anti-Scientologist Mike Rinder claim to have left the Church in protest of abuse and now be “best good buddies” with fellow anti-Scientologist Marty Rathbun, who nearly beat him to death?

The only question more ludicrous is why Cooper—in possession of all facts from a multitude of eyewitnesses—did not press Rathbun on that very incident.

The answer is simple: Any presentation of the real facts would have destroyed the credibility of Cooper’s “star witness” and what the AC360 anchor touted as an “investigation.”

Nonetheless, provided to Cooper and his bosses:

• Nine sworn declarations that vividly described the near-fatal assault.

• Personal letters from three Church executives that described Rathbun’s brutal attack of Rinder.

• Four letters to CNN (two from the Church spokesperson and two from Church lawyers) described the incident in relationship to the broadcast.

• Thirteen senior Church executives met with executives at CNN headquarters in Atlanta and detailed the assault.

• Three Church executives (including Rinder’s ex-wife) recounted the vicious attack directly to Cooper in five separate interviews in approximately a one-hour time span on March 29, 2010, during a taping with Cooper.

Despite all this documentary evidence, CNN top management on behalf of their water-carrier, Cooper, might as well have turned it into confetti and thrown it out the window from their perch overlooking downtown Atlanta.

The untold story came in the form of sworn declarations—straight from the senior Church executives and staff who were there and who witnessed and stopped Rathbun’s rampage.

In one declaration, a Church executive sets the stage and bears witness to the start of the savage beating that, if gone unchecked, would have undoubtedly resulted in the death of Rinder.

As he told CNN: “During a discussion involving several other executives and staff members of the Church of Scientology International, Rathbun was present and up to that point had remained mostly silent. Suddenly and completely out of the blue, he jumped at Mike Rinder and tackled him violently to the floor while screaming at him with mostly incomprehensible words. Rathbun straddled Rinder, pinning him down with all his weight, while strangling him with both his hands and squeezing his neck.”

Another Church official’s account shed light on the hate-fueled brute force of Rathbun’s assault: “I witnessed Rathbun punching and choking Rinder, requiring more than five men to pull Rathbun off Rinder.”

And, as one staffer conveyed in her affidavit, if it hadn’t been for those five men Rinder’s body would now be in a cemetery: “…choking him on the floor until he turned purple. I was scared.”

Another Church executive saw not only the choking, but what Rathbun was insanely and simultaneously doing to Rinder: “…violently tackle him to the floor… Rathbun kept on choking Rinder, while also pounding his head against the floor repeatedly.”

Yet another described to CNN the ambush-style nature of the sneak attack: “He jumped Rinder, threw him to the ground and started strangling him. It stunned and shocked everyone.”

“Several big men had to drag him off Rinder who was going blue in the face” was offered as an eyewitness testimony to Rathbun’s psychotic assault.

One of the other men who stepped in to prevent Rinder’s death said: “I, along with others, pulled Rathbun off of Rinder. He speaks of violence, there’s your violence.”

Perhaps it’s something akin to “battered spouse syndrome,” where a husband or wife, no matter the number of beatings they’ve endured, keeps returning to their abuser.

Another declaration alerted CNN to the fact that Rathbun’s rage was so out of control that, initially, after it had taken five grown men to pull him off Rinder and try to calm the situation down, the attack would only resume again, with even more ferocity:

“He grabbed Rinder by the arm, put his other arm around his back and started leading Rinder towards a side exit door. I followed them outside…the minute he got Rinder outside and the door closed, Rathbun started seriously beating Rinder up.

“He was punching him in the head and upper body and threw Rinder to the ground across a low stone wall. I grabbed Rathbun from behind and pulled him off of Rinder and he stopped hitting him. Rinder got up; he was shaken and trying to regain his composure.

“I then saw Rathbun make a fist and pull back to punch Rinder in the side. I knew where he was aiming he might rupture Rinder’s kidney. So I threw my arms around Rinder just as Rathbun was starting to punch and Rathbun’s fist hit my watch so hard that it broke the titanium band and put a deep cut in my wrist.

“At that point I screamed at Rathbun to knock it off, grabbed Rinder and led him around to the front of the building. I took Rinder inside to another room. Rinder was distraught and crying. He had contusions on his neck and face and his ear was bleeding.”

Following the incident, a bruised, bleeding and struggling-to-breathe Rinder could only say this about his mad attacker and now—perversely—his running buddy:

“Rathbun is a psychopath, he is a real nut case. He is a mental case on the loose.”

Nine individual eyewitness reports of Rathbun’s rabid violence point to the insanity of the assault and how only intervention by others prevented something even worse from happening:

• Rinder was turning blue…even purple in the face.

• The attack was totally out of the blue.

• It took five big men to tear Rathbun off.

Nevertheless and through a journalistic sleight of hand, Cooper conveniently and criminally allows Rathbun to try and accuse someone else of beating up Rinder—despite the fact that Cooper held all of the aforementioned evidence in his hands, evidence sworn under oath.

But amongst all that evidence, there was one witness to the Rathbun assault who knew the truth better than anyone else—Cathy Bernardini, Mike Rinder’s wife. As she told Anderson Cooper, “In over three decades with Mike, the only person I ever saw beat Mike and, in fact, almost kill him, was Marty Rathbun… I also did see the aftermath of Marty’s beating, choking and punching on Mike, so I know what it’s like. Mike’s face was cut and swollen, his neck had contusions, his ears were cut, his lip was swollen and bruised and his chest was bruised.”

True to his agenda, Anderson didn’t air the details, apparently relegating the words “almost kill[ed] him” to be of little concern.

Yet, instead, there was Anderson seated with Rathbun who was claiming on behalf of an absent Mike Rinder that Rinder was severely beaten by another. That Rathbun was lying is hardly surprising. He wasn’t hiring himself out to the media to air the story of his life. Nobody knows who Rathbun is and his 15 minutes of fame could only be purchased by having him weave stories about others who did have a name.

But one fact cannot be denied: Cooper was irresponsible and derelict and willfully abandoned any notion of journalistic fairness by not even asking Rathbun, point-blank, about the night he almost killed Rinder because it’s a cold, hard fact that before even embarking on his so-called investigation, Cooper knew Rathbun had beaten up Rinder. To be sure, it was previously reported in the very same newspaper Cooper had originally latched onto for his broadcast.

The one remaining mystery in this all-too-pathetic saga may never be solved, nor even comprehended: Rathbun, after nearly killing Rinder, is now, as he says, “best good buddies” with his former victim.

It begs the question: What is the true nature of their relationship?

Perhaps it’s something akin to “battered spouse syndrome,” where a husband or wife, no matter the number of beatings they’ve endured, keeps returning to their abuser.

Or perhaps it’s something else.

Whatever the case, it’s clear from the CNN broadcast the two are figuratively in bed with each other on their media-for-hire tour.

In that regard, it’s the self-fulfilling prophecy of Rinder himself, describing the cause of his downfall into the black pit of oblivion:

“I emulated Marty…I thought he was the person I should act like—and I did. I became a clone of him but totally subservient to him in all respects—I never disagreed with him on anything and had tacit agreements with him that anything he did or said was OK.” —Mike Rinder

Postscript: Rinder was recently asked by a Scientologist how he could be in bed with Rathbun, who beat him to a pulp.

His answer? “It was just once.”

Of course, that’s a complete lie. Rathbun himself has admitted to numerous assaults on Rinder. But either way, this last infamous beat down would have been the last had five of his then-colleagues not intervened—the five colleagues he now attacks in the media. All of which, if nothing else, tells you the kind of man Rinder is. One would have expected, at the very least, a “thank you” for saving his life.

Meet Mike Rinder, ex-scientology member and professional hate monger

“I am afraid of my potential for destruction.” —Mike Rinder

And so he should have been afraid. For so intense and vicious is Rinder’s hatred for anyone associated with Scientology that it ultimately destroyed every meaningful relationship he ever had… beginning with the family he abandoned for the fact they remain Scientologists.

Here’s the unvarnished story on that most unforgiving and reprehensible aspect of Rinder’s hate-driven character, with a few pointed highlights for starters:

• Once a spokesperson for the Church (before he was removed for incompetence and mega-misconduct), now obsessively lying to the media about the religion he previously defended, Rinder has no regard for the feelings of the longtime Scientologists within his family. To be sure, Rinder couldn’t care less about any—and all—members of his family.
• Along with fellow Scientology-haters, attempts to wreak havoc wherever he goes with video camera and recording devices, all under the pretense of “documenting” that he cares about his family.
• Cut all contact with his elderly mother in Australia, despite repeated letters from her, and just as ruthlessly cut contact with his brother and sister.
• Abandoned his wife of more than 30 years and their two children.

More in Freedom Magazine

One time Google's got it right: Scientology's Amy Scobee and adulterism

Freedom Magazine:

Dismissed from Scientology management for gross incompetence and sexual misconduct, Amy Scobee last called herself a Scientologist in 2005. She is now the self-proclaimed “Peacock” of an Internet fringe that posts salacious messages to incite hate crimes against Scientology and Scientologists. Although she has thus far escaped hate-crime scrutiny, she is now on record as among the most vitriolic Internet snipers.

More about this at http://www.freedommag.org/amy-scobee-scientology-grassy-knoll.html:

chamber of horrors: Scobee, Rathbun, Rinder, DeVocht and the mastering of false reports

The recent months have seen a new wave of a slander campaign against the Church of Scientology, created by some dupes whose conscience is so absent that you can hear a little echo when they talk. The Church now has responded to some of the claims and it is well worth reading:

About: Amy Scobee
About: Tom DeVocht
About: Mark Rathbun
or: Marty Rathbun
or: Mark Marty Rathbun

And last but not least: Anderson Cooper and his fake "investigation" show on Scientology.

"Anonymous" Hate Group Member Sentenced in Crime Against New York Scientology Church

A member of the hate group Anonymous, Mahoud Samed Almahadin, aka Matt Connor, was sentenced today in New York City Criminal Court.

New York (Vocus/PRWEB ) April 15, 2010 -- A member of the hate group Anonymous, Mahoud Samed Almahadin, aka Matt Connor, was sentenced today in New York City Criminal Court in connection with a January 8, 2009, attack on the Church of Scientology of New York. (People vs. Almahadin, Mahoud; Criminal Docket 2009NY00410).

Almahadin smeared himself with a mixture of Vaseline, nail clippings and pubic hairs donated by other members of the Anonymous hate group, ran into the New York Church just off Times Square and desecrated the Church, including causing damage to Scriptural materials. Almahadin’s sentence forbids him from going near the Church of Scientology for five years. He was also sentenced to pay the damages caused by his acts and to perform substantial community service as further restitution for the crime.

Church of Scientology attorney Kendrick Moxon said of the result, “The action against Almahadin is a victory for everyone’s right to peaceably practice their religion. It is a warning to others who desecrate houses of worship and commit hate crimes. It is also the latest blow against Anonymous.” “Anonymous” is a loosely connected hate group targeting Scientologists, Jews and other minority racial and ethnic groups and organizations.

Another member of Anonymous, Jacob Speregen, also charged in the same incident, will stand trial later this year.

The conviction follows the November 18, 2009, sentencing of a New Jersey man to one year and one day in federal prison on a felony conviction for his part in a cyber attack against Church of Scientology websites in January 2008. (Case No. CR 09-87-01) That attack was also carried out by Anonymous members.

Dmitriy Guzner, 19, of Verona, New Jersey, who in May 2009 pled guilty to one count of computer hacking, was sentenced for his role in the distributed denial of service (DDOS) attack against Scientology websites. A DDOS attack occurs when a large amount of malicious Internet traffic is directed at websites, overloading their capacity and making them unavailable to legitimate users.

Church websites were made unavailable to valid users for over 24 hours, with the attacks continuing for 12 days, requiring the Church to hire a computer security company to protect against the attacks and to reroute traffic. Due to the severity of the crime, Judge Joseph Greenaway in U.S. District Court in Newark sentenced Guzner to the 366-day prison term, plus two years probation following his prison term, and ordered Guzner to pay $37,500 restitution to the Church.

On October 31, another Anonymous follower, Brian Thomas Mettenbrink, 20, was indicted by a Grand Jury in the US District Court in Los Angeles, for his role in the same attack on Scientology websites, for conspiracy and “transmission of a code, information, program, or command to a protected computer.” (Case No. CR 09-01149) (The indictment states that he obtained a computer program from an Anonymous website and executed a DDOS attack from his dormitory at Iowa State University against the Church computers in Los Angeles. He is awaiting sentencing.

According to court documents, Anonymous is an underground hate group that, in addition to the cyber attack, targeted Churches of Scientology and members with death threats, bomb threats and fake anthrax mail. In addition to Scientology Churches and the Prime Minister of Australia, Anonymous has also targeted The Epilepsy Foundation, hip-hop music websites and others.

Scientology is a worldwide religious movement with more than 8,500 Churches, Missions and affiliated groups in 165 countries. The Church and its members dedicate their time and resources to numerous humanitarian programs that Scientology has become known for around the world, including combating drug abuse, immorality, illiteracy, and human rights violations.

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Sea Org Defectors Say About Church of Scientology...

... a lot of trash. But - what is the Sea Organization anyway?

Sea Organization

A lot could be said about the Sea Organization. It is the Church’s core religious body with more than 6,000 members worldwide. Here is a little history about what is usually called "Sea Org":

"The Sea Organization (or Sea Org) is a special order which was founded in 1967 when Mr. Hubbard decided to retire from his office as the Executive Director of the Church to concentrate on his literary work on board ship. Those who then were first to follow him became the nuclear group of the newly established religion. As time went on this group became a mythical model to be observed and respected as the core of the most devout members of the Church. All members of the Sea Organization work full-time for the religion by serving on staff of the higher level Churches. Evidence of their dedication is the contract of employment in the Sea Organization ‘for the next billion years.’"

"This kind of religious order in many respects reminds one of the circles of disciples who gathered around such founders of world religions as Jesus or Mohammed or the monastic order of the monks around Prince Gautama when he became Buddha. It is a very specific manifestation of religious mythology and symbolism. As such it is one of the criteria upon which we base our conclusion that Scientology is a new religion."

"The Scientologists most dedicated to their religion - members of the Sea Organization - live a communal lifestyle, take care of each other’s daily and economic needs such as food, lodging and medical needs, wear distinctive uniforms, live by their particular customs, and devote almost all of their working hours to the service of their religion. The Church of Scientology with all its functions is clearly a ‘way of life’ for people serving in a religious order."

The Sea Organization's principal bases are in the United States (Los Angeles, Clearwater, New York), Australia (Sydney), South Africa (Johannesburg), Canada (Toronto), Denmark (Copenhagen), Great Britain (East Grinstead), Mexico (Mexico City) and on the vessel, Freewinds, based in the Caribbean.

(Source: Study of Juha Pentikäinen, Chair of the Department of the Study of Religions, University of Helsinki/Finland, 1996)

Member of Hate Group Anonymous Pleads Guilty to Attack on New York Church of Scientology

Hate group Anonymous member, Mahoud Samed Almahadin, pled guilty to Criminal Mischief today in the New York City Criminal Court in connection with a January 8, 2009 attack on the Church of Scientology of New York.

NEW YORK, Feb. 23 /PRNewswire/ -- A member of the hate group Anonymous, Mahoud Samed Almahadin, aka Matt Connor, pled guilty to Criminal Mischief today in the New York City Criminal Court in connection with a January 8, 2009, attack on the Church of Scientology of New York. (People vs. Almahadin, Mahoud; Criminal Docket 2009NY00410)

Almahadin smeared himself with a mixture of petroleum jelly, nail clippings and pubic hairs donated by other members of the Anonymous hate group, ran into the New York Church just off Times Square and desecrated the Church, including causing damage to Scriptural materials. As part of his guilty plea, he is required to stay away from the Church of Scientology for the next five years. His sentencing will take place in April.

Church of Scientology attorney Kendrick Moxon said of the result, "The action against Almahadin is a victory for everyone's right to peaceably practice their religion. It is a warning to others who find pleasure in desecrating houses of worship and committing hate crimes. It is also the latest blow against the hate group Anonymous."

Another member of Anonymous, Jacob Speregen, also charged in the same incident, will stand trial in April.

The conviction follows the November 18, 2009, sentencing of a New Jersey man to one year and one day in federal prison on a felony conviction for his part in a cyber attack against Church of Scientology websites in January 2008. (Case No. CR 09-87-01)

The attack was carried out with others calling themselves "Anonymous," a hate group targeting Scientology and others individuals and organizations, including the website of the Prime Minister of Australia.

Dmitriy Guzner, 19, of Verona, New Jersey, who in May 2009 pled guilty to one count of computer hacking, was sentenced for his role in the distributed denial of service (DDOS) attack against Scientology websites. A DDOS attack occurs when a large amount of malicious Internet traffic is directed at websites, overloading their capacity and making them unavailable to legitimate users.

Church websites were made unavailable to valid users for 24 hours, with the attacks continuing for 12 days, requiring the Church to hire a computer security company to protect against the attacks and to reroute traffic. Due to the severity of the crime, Judge Joseph Greenaway in U.S. District Court in Newark sentenced Guzner to the 366-day prison term, plus two years probation following his prison term, and ordered Guzner to pay $37,500 restitution to the Church.

On October 31, another Anonymous follower, Brian Thomas Mettenbrink, 20, was indicted by a Grand Jury in the US District Court for Central California for the same attack on Scientology websites, for conspiracy and "transmission of a code, information, program, or command to a protected computer." The indictment states that he obtained a computer program from an Anonymous website and executed a DDOS attack from his dormitory at Iowa State University against the Church computers in Los Angeles. He is awaiting sentencing.

According to court documents, Anonymous is an underground hate group that, in addition to the cyber attack, targeted Churches of Scientology and members with death threats, bomb threats and fake anthrax mail. In addition to Scientology Churches and the Prime Minister of Australia, Anonymous has also targeted The Epilepsy Foundation, hip-hop music websites and others.

Scientology is a worldwide religious movement with more than 8,000 Churches, Missions and affiliated groups in 165 countries. The Church and its members dedicate their time and resources to numerous humanitarian programs that Scientology has become known for around the world, including combating drug abuse, immorality, illiteracy, and human rights violations.

For more information about Scientology, visit http://www.scientology.org.

New Issue of the Church of Scientology Freedom Magazine

FreedomMagazine_29Dec2009

Scientology News: Federal Crime Charges against Anonymous

On Wednesday, October 28, 2009, a federal Grand Jury in Los Angeles indicted Brian Thomas Mettenbrink, a member of the cyber hate group Anonymous, for his part in the January 2008 attempted destruction of Scientology websites owned by the Church of Scientology.

Mettenbrink, 20, is charged with conspiracy and “transmission of a code, information, program, or command to a protected computer.” The indictment states that he obtained a computer program from an Anonymous website and executed a “DDOS” attack from his dormitory at Iowa State University against Church computers in Los Angeles. A DDOS (distributed denial of service) attack occurs where a large amount of malicious Internet traffic is directed at a website or a set of websites, with the intent to overwhelm and shut down the websites.

Mettenbrink is the second member of Anonymous to face criminal charges relating to this attack. In May 2009, Dmitriy Guzner, then 18, pleaded guilty to computer hacking charges for his role in the attack on Church computers. He is currently awaiting sentencing.

Scientology is a worldwide religious movement with more than 8,000 Churches, Missions and groups in 165 countries. The Church and its members dedicate their time and resources to numerous humanitarian programs that Scientology has become known for around the world, including combating drug abuse, immorality, illiteracy and human rights violations.

For more information about Scientology, visit Scientology.org.

Scientology leader, David Miscavige -Nightline Show

ABC NEWS NIGHLINE 14 February 1992
Links: Source report Transcript Video

KOPPEL: Joining us live tonight is David Miscavige, whose formal title is chairman of the board of the Religious Technology Center, the organization which manages Dianetics and Scientology. Mr. Miscavige took over as the head of Scientology in 1987 following the death of the church's founder, L. Ron Hubbard. You've been sitting here very patiently for the first 15 minutes. It's your turn. We're going to take a short segment here to talk, and then we'll take a break, and then we've got the rest of the program to talk. Where would you like to pick up on what many in our audience, I suspect, have seen for the first time about the Church of Scientology?

DAVID MISCAVIGE, Church of Scientology: Yeah, well, I think--you know, I guess the first thing I would like to take up is the fact that the intro piece--there's no question that there's some controversy surrounding Scientology, but if you want to look at what the real controversy is, there's been stories like this one that we saw here for the past 40 years, and yet during that time period Scientology's continued to grow, in fact, it's 25 times larger today than it was in 1980. I would just like to take up a few of the falsehoods that are in there, because I think this explains a lot why you have the controversy. I don't know that Scientology lends itself so well to the press. In this instance, we did agree that we would have your correspondents come in, and in fact, he did have unlimited access to the church, but then you get a piece like this. For instance, something that isn't mentioned in there is that every single detractor on there is part of a religious hate group called Cult Awareness Network and their sister group called American Family Foundation. Now, I don't know if you've heard of these people, but it's the same as the KKK would be with the blacks. I think if you interviewed a neo-Nazi and asked them to talk about the Jews, you would get a similar result to what you have here. The thing I find disingenuous is that it's not commented upon, and yet, in fact, your correspondent Forrest and Deanna Lee were aware of this fact, and not only that, that is the source of where they- they received these people to talk to. They didn't find them randomly-

KOPPEL: Well, if I may just interrupt for a moment, you realize there's a little bit of a problem in getting people to talk critically about the Scientology because, quite frankly, they're scared.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, no, no, no, no.

KOPPEL: Well, I'm telling you-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, no, no, no. Let me tell you-

KOPPEL: -I'm telling you people are scared.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -let me explain something to you. The most disingenuous thing is that you have those people. Now, let's not give the American public the wrong impression, that these are people that randomly were pulled in from around the world and that they decided to talk against Scientology. Those people aren't scared and they've been loudly speaking in the press. You showed me a book you had before this show that has many detractors, same ones, so they're not really frightened. That's a good story-

KOPPEL: Actually, that wasn't a book, it was a collection of articles-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -let me finish.

KOPPEL: -that has been written about you and the church.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: But the same people were quoted.

KOPPEL: No. What I was saying is the reason, perhaps, that we only hear from those folks is that there are a lot of other people who might be considered detractors of the church, and they, who do not belong to any organization are, quite frankly, afraid to come out and speak publicly.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, I'm sorry, no, I'm sorry, that story doesn't hold water, because I'll tell you, from my perspective, the person getting harassed is myself and the church. Let me give you an example. We did make access possible for Forrest. That isn't to say that he took advantage of it, Ted. For instance, the subject of money comes up, it comes up routinely, and I'm sure we might bring it up later on in this show, but I in fact had the highest contributors of Scientology gathered up so that Forrest could interview them, to ask them why they gave money to the church and how much they had, and believe me, it's larger figures than these people are talking about. He told me he didn't have time. I said, "Please, I mean, they're here." He said, "No, I don't have time, I don't want to see 'em." I offered for him to go down to our church headquarters in Clearwater, Florida, where 2,000 parishioners are there at any given time from all over the world. In other words, he would get a cross-selection of people from Germany, England, California, Florida, Spain, Italy, you name it. Didn't want to go, didn't have time. So to represent also that this is what the church puts forth isn't so. Here's what I find wrong and here's what I find the common mistake the media makes. I can give you a hundred thousand Scientologists who will say unbelievably positive things about their church to every one you add on there, and I not only am upset about those people not being interviewed, they are, too. And the funny thing about it and why you find this not really being that one who speaks in the media is because not just myself, any Scientologist, will open up a paper, will watch this program, they're probably laughing right now, saying, "That isn't Scientology. " That's what makes media. Media is controversy, I understand that, and if you really looked at the big picture of what's happening in Scientology, it isn't really controversial, certainly to a Scientologist.

KOPPEL: Okay. We are going to have to take a break.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Very good.

KOPPEL: I hope you understand that there's a little bit of a paradox in your saying, you know, "We're not going to get a chance to listen to what Scientology is really about"; we have with us, after all, since you were courteous enough to join us-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, absolutely, I'm just trying- I'm just trying to correct this, that's all.

KOPPEL: -I understand, and we're going to be spending the rest of this hour, in which I'll have a chance to talk to you and you can clear up some of the misconceptions we have.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Absolutely.

KOPPEL: Okay?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay.

KOPPEL: We'll continue our discussion in a moment.["Dianetics," a best-seller for a record 100 consecutive weeks (1986-1988).]

[Commercial break]

ANNOUNCER: We return now to A Conversation with David Miscavige. Once again, Ted Koppel.

KOPPEL: I'd like to begin, Mr. Miscavige, with, I guess, the kind of broad question that perhaps folks at home may be asking themselves right now, but let me be the guinea pig for a moment. See if you can explain to me why I would want to be a Scientologist.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Because you care about yourself and life itself. Scientology,the word means study of life, study of knowledge, and that's where it is, it takes up all areas of life itself, things that are integral and maxims that are related to life and very existence. Let me give you an example, it's better if I take that, because it is such a broad-ranging subject covering so many different areas, the subject of communication. This is something that major breakthroughs exist in Scientology, being able to communicate in the world around you. And I think everybody would agree that this is an important subject. Well, there's an actual formula for communication which can be understood. You can drill on this formula of communication, and learn to drill, but moreover, take the person who has trouble communicating, has- well, for some reason he can't, anxiety, whatever.

KOPPEL: I'll tell you what. Let's stick with me, okay? So far in life I haven't had a whole lot of trouble communicating. Now see if you can communicate to me what it is that you're going to be able to do for me that makes me a better communicator.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, I don't- in Scientology you don't do anything for somebody else. Scientology is something that requires somebody's active participation.

KOPPEL: Then, fine, I-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: It certainly- let me explain something-

KOPPEL: -I want to participate, I want to be active completely. We are looking theoretically-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: What in your life, Ted- what in your life do you not feel is right, that you would like help?

KOPPEL: I feel perfectly comfortable with my life. I like my job, I'm happy with my family, I love my wife, I'm healthy. I'm perfectly content, that's why I'm asking you what is it you can do for me?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well- well, number one, I would never try to talk you into that Scientology's for you. You see, that's the funny thing about this, as if I'm now going to give a sales pitch to you on Scientology. Believe me, Scientology's valuable enough that it doesn't require any sales pitch, but let's look at it this way, then, what Scientology does. If you look out across the world today, you could say that if you take a person who's healthy, doing well, like yourself, you'd say that that person is normal, not a crazy, not somebody who's psychotic, you look at a wall and they call it an elephant. Would you agree with me on that?

KOPPEL: So far I've got no problem.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. And you can see people below that, and crazy people, criminals, that I think society in general will look at and say, "That breed of person hasn't something quite right because they're not up to this level of personality." You can understand that. Well, we in Scientology are not- you see, all past attempts have been to bring man up to somebody's standard of what's normal. What we are trying to do in Scientology is take somebody from this higher level and move them up to greater ability. You see, we're interested in the-

KOPPEL: What about those folks "down there"?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -well, yes, no, you wouldn't- we don't ignore them, but my point is this. Scientology is there to help the able become more able. The guy who's going around, he's working, he's trying to make it, these people generally have something in their life that they would like to improve and, in any event, if you can increase that person's ability, the one who's chipping in, the one who's able, and bring him up higher, this sphere of influence that he affects in the world around him can be much greater and he can get on and do better.

KOPPEL: Now, Mr. Miscavige, when you and I talked the first time, a few months ago, I said to you I was going to come after you on some of these issues. I am a cynic, by nature. I guess that's why I like being a reporter. What you have described to me there fits perfectly with the image that I have of Scientology, namely you're interested in folks who are producing. Another way of saying that is you're interested in folks who've got money and who can pay to work their way up the Scientology ladder?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, you see, that's where you miss the point, because in fact, you know, this subject of money comes up, but you've got the wrong issue there. The subject of money is, where's it going. You see, another part that isn't in that piece, the money in Scientology isn't going to me, it's not going to my colleagues. That's a fact. That's a fact. You can call up the IRS and find that fact out. They've audited our records and seen all of that, and none of that money is going anywhere. As a matter of fact, the officials in the church arepaid far less and live far more frugal existences than any other church leader. Our money goes to social causes that we accept. You take these people, we are the largest social reform group in the world, do far more than any other church. For the last two years we have been voted the community outreach group of the year in Los Angeles.

KOPPEL: By whom?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: By the local city council. The senate of California passed a resolution that's for our work with underprivileged children in California. We work on getting drug addicts off drugs. We support Narconon, which is a drug rehabilitation center using the drug rehabilitation technology of L. Ron Hubbard. There are 33 centers around the world. Over 100,000 people have been gotten off drugs. We sponsor educational programs. Several years ago in just- wait, in just one instance, we worked with-

KOPPEL: I don't want to minimize any of that-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -but wait-

KOPPEL: -but how does that make your group the- how did you put it, that you do more to help-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -social reforms, helping people.

KOPPEL: -social reform-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Sure.

KOPPEL: -than any other group in the world. More than the Catholic Church, more than-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, no, more accurately is per size, and when you put it in that rate, in other words, how big Scientology is compared to any others, the amount that we do on that subject, there's not even anybody comparable.

KOPPEL: Okay. We've got to take a break, we'll continue our discussion with David Miscavige in a moment.["Dianetics," sales worldwide 14.6 million, languages 22]

[Commercial break]

ANNOUNCER: A Conversation with David Miscavige now continues. Here again, Ted Koppel.

KOPPEL: During one of Forrest Sawyer's pieces a moment ago, we heard one of your colleagues talking about psychiatry, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Right.

KOPPEL: You guys are deaf on psychiatry. The criticism that was made was that this is foreign to the United States. He referred to its origin in Nazism and Communism. And that your religion, Scientology, is an "American" religion. Fair enough so far?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, American- of the mind. Yeah. That's right.

KOPPEL: What does that do for Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and all the other isms that also did not-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, I think-

KOPPEL: -originate in this country?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -well, no, that isn't really the point. The point there is this, that those people, the Fascists, the Communists, have used psychiatry to further their ends. That's just a fact. I mean, you want to look at the studies that brought about the Holocaust of the Jews, that the Nazis justified killing the Jews, they were done at the Max Planck Institute of Psychiatry in Leipzig, Germany, and that justified the killing of six million people. If you look at the report that even Forrest Sawyer did on mental institutions in Russia, several months ago he did this, you saw that that was a tool of the state. That's the point he's making there. But let me tell you what our real problem is. Number one, understand this. Psychiatry, psychology, that comes from the word psyche. Psyche means soul. These people have preempted the field of religion, not just Scientology, every other religion. They right now practice and preach the fact that man is an animal, and I guess that is where philosophically we're at odds with them. But to understand what this war is, this is not something that we started. In fact, 22 days after Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health came out, the attacks from the American Psychiatric Association started. This was the first popular book on the mind ever in existence, it was running up the best-seller list, it was popular with the people. I have the letter sent out by the man who was in the American Psychiatric Association asking for ad hominum reviews on the subject of Dianetics. These people absolutely felt that we were cutting across their vested interests, and the lengths with which they have gone to destroy Scientology and Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard is absolutely mind- boggling. They attempted to do so through the 1950s. First they tried to attack L. Ron Hubbard's credibility, then they recruited the American Medical Association and the Food and Drug Administration, and they then proceeded to infiltrate our organization.

KOPPEL: May I-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, no, let me finish-

KOPPEL: -may I stop you just for a moment, because, you know, when you talk about undermining L. Ron Hubbard's credibility, and again, I have no idea whether that video and the tape that we heard-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -yeah, but why don't touch on that-

KOPPEL: -that we heard was representative of L. Ron Hubbard, but when I hear about a man talking about having been taken out to the Van Allen space radiation belt of space ships that were essentially the same thing as the DC-8, I've got to tell you, I mean, if we're talking about this man's credibility, that certainly raises some questions in my mind about his credibility.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. Well, let me ask you, have you read any books on Dianetics or Scientology?

KOPPEL: I've been reading little else over the last two days.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: You see, here-

KOPPEL: I must confess, I'm not a student of-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -but you haven't read Dianetics or any books on Scientology -

KOPPEL: You're absolutely right.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -okay, fine. Then that's why you would make a comment like that. I mean, let's not joke around here. That bit that Forrest did there pulled out of context items- and let's not forget something else, by the way. I told Forrest Sawyer, and I was open about this the whole time, I have been in communication with Nightline numerous times - I said, "Forrest, if something comes up, you want to bring me up an allegation, you confront me it before this so I can do away with this garbage and not have to do it on the program." "Dave, I promise you I'll do it." Numerous calls have been put in to him. I have never heard it from him, I never heard about these. To do that is take anything out of context. Ted, when I talk about-

KOPPEL: Can you-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -no, but let me just give you an analogy-

KOPPEL: -you know that there are going to be a lot of folks out there, and I'm sure there are a lot of Scientologists, and I don't want to offend anyone who truly believes this, but there are a lot of people out there who will look at that, you say it was taken out of context. Take a minute, if you would, and see if you can put it into context for us so that it does not sound ridiculous, because, quite frankly, the way it sounded there, it sounded ridiculous.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. Well, let me tell you- let me ask you to do this, then, I want you to take the Catholic Church and take right now and explain to me, to make sense that the Virgin Mary was a virgin, scientifically impossible, unless we're talking about something- okay, I'll be like you, I'll be the cynic, if we're talking about artificial insemination, how could that be, if you're talking about going out to heaven - except we have a space shuttle going out there, we have the Apollo going out there, you do that. I'm not here-

KOPPEL: I will-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -wait-

KOPPEL: -I will-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -I'm not here to talk-

KOPPEL: -let me do it, and you're- you were a Catholic as a child, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah.

KOPPEL: So you know full well that those issues are questions of faith. Are you telling me that what we have heard L. Ron Hubbard say on this broadcast this evening, that they, to Scientologists, are issues of faith? If that's what you tell me, then that's fine.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, no. As a matter of fact-

KOPPEL: Then it doesn't have to be explained logically.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -[crosstalk] -talk about the Van Allen Belt or whatever is that that forms no part of current Scientology, none whatsoever.

KOPPEL: But what did he mean when he was talking about it?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, you know, quite frankly, this tape here, he's talking about the origins of the universe, and I think you're going to find that in any, any, any religion, and I think you can make the same mockery of it, I think it's offensive that you're doing it here, because I don't think you'd do it somewhere else.

KOPPEL: I'm not mocking it. I'm asking you a question, and you know, you turn it around and ask me about Catholicism, I say we're talking about areas of faith.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, it's not even a matter of faith, because Scientology is about you, yourself and what you do. You're bringing up something that isn't part of current Scientology, that isn't something that Scientologists study, that is part of some tape taken from, I have no idea, and asking me about it and asking me to put it in context. That I can't do.

KOPPEL: All right. So this has nothing to do with your faith today?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: If you read any books on Scien- no. Van Allen Belt? Absolutely not. Nothing.

KOPPEL: All right. Okay. We're going to continue our discussion in just a moment.

[Commercial break]

KOPPEL: And we're back once again with David Miscavige. I'm going to let you get to the point you want to get to, but I was astonished, during the break you told me you had never heard that tape before, the L. Ron Hubbard tape.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, I'd never heard that. No. I'm not- I mean, it may exist here, but I haven't heard it. I mean, I don't know if you understand, there are 6,000 lectures by Mr. Hubbard. There are over 20 million words of printed words in Scientology, and all of these have been made available in Scientology, so if it is there, we'll find it. I don't think anything's being hidden, either. I just personally haven't heard that tape, no.

KOPPEL: Okay. Now, you wanted to get back to the issue of the psychiatrists.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes.

KOPPEL: And let me, if I may, by way of introduction to that, I did not interrupt you before, but you were talking about the use of psychiatry in Nazi Germany, the use of psychiatry in the Soviet Union.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes.

KOPPEL: I would argue, and I think most psychiatrists in this country would argue, that what we're talking about here was the misuse of psychiatry in both those countries.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, okay. And if we're talking about the misuse, fine. In any event, I think any use that ends up killing people is a misuse, and I think that's a hell of a record to have. But let me get back to where I was, because it does tie in. You say the misuse, but I don't know if you're aware that there was a plan in 1955 in this country, Ted, to repeat what was done in Russia. There was going to be a Siberia, U.S.A. set up on a million acres in Alaska to send mental patients. They were going to lessen the commitment laws, you could basically get into an argument with somebody and be sent up there. This sounds very odd. Nobody's ever heard about it. That's in no small part thanks to the Church of Scientology. I must say, though, that when that bill was killed in Congress, the war was on with psychiatry where they declared war on us, and I want you to understand something-

KOPPEL: Let me just ask you to be specific on that. You are talking about a bill having been brought into Congress for the setting aside of a million acres in Alaska-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: You got it.

KOPPEL: -for people-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: To send a mental health center.

KOPPEL: -To send mental health patients. What was- who was the sponsor of that bill? What was the bill number? I mean, we'd- I'm sure we're going to [crosstalk]-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, I have a copy of it and if you want it I can give it to you. All of these documents-

KOPPEL: I would. Let me see it.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -all of these documents were made available to Forrest. If they're not on here, I don't know why, but I do have them and I will make it available to you.

KOPPEL: Okay. Now, was that bill ever voted on? Did it ever come out of committee?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It was a major, major, major flap for the psychiatrists when it got voted down, because then the slogan around the country began, "Siberia U.S.A.," and it was really the first time that psychiatry had been denigrated publicly, that they weren't the science that they had been promoting themselves to be. And they took it upon themselves then to start dealing with anybody who would oppose them. They definitely saw Dianetics and Scientology as opposing them, not only in terms of their brutal treatments, such as electric shock and prefrontal lobotomy, which are specific things that we're against, but also for the fact of the people that were going to Dianetics and Scientology and not there. They went to the Food and Drug Administration, they went to the American Medical Association, they arranged an informant to go into our headquarters here in Washington, D.C., and infiltratethe organization over the next five years. I have documents on this, too. They wanted tto get somebody in the church to recommend medical treatment, couldn't get them to do it, walk in and say, "I want to be cured medically." People wouldn't do it. They finally went so far as getting the head of the D.C. morals- the moral department of the D.C. police to send his daughter in as an informant, pregnant, to get an abortion, to ask the church to do it, a frame job. The church didn't go for it. They did then raid the church.

KOPPEL: When you say "they," you're talking about who now?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I am talking- this is- the APA, AMA, Food and Drug Administration. These people were all coordinated doing these activities, and it went on for five years, Ted, and you have to understand, we only find this out recently. They then proceed to raid our church. Now, the following takes place. They killed one of our executive directors. They literally murdered- the Food and Drug Administration hired an informant to go into our organization in Seattle, Washington, his wife was there. He wasn't for Scientology, she was. They said, "Great, report on her and report on Scientology. " He proceeded to do so. Several weeks later, murdered the head of our organization. The Food and Drug Administration never told us that it was their informant. Instead- wait- instead, they got with the D.C.- I mean, with the Seattle police, and went undercover in the organization on the homicide investigation to rifle our files. At that same time - and here's where the media comes in - a man interviewed L. Ron Hubbard for The Saturday Evening Post. He came out with an unbelievably bad article in that magazine. Of course, Scientology said, "You're part of this Food and Drug Administration thing," and of course, he said, "Oh, excuse me, you just sound like the fringe," which is very easy to say. What do I find out 20 years later through the Freedom of Information Act? I find out that this man, a man named James Phelan, had been- well, The Saturday Evening Post had been written to by the Food and Drug Administration to get a discrediting article written on Mr. Hubbard and Scientology to help their case against us, that this man then went and interviewed Mr. Hubbard. He interviewed him for two days. Mr. Hubbard provided him with tapes and transcripts. The man came back here to the United States, Mr. Hubbard was in England, and provided those transcripts to the Food and Drug Administration for their case a full week before he ever wrote his article.

KOPPEL: We have got to take another break. We'll continue our discussion in a moment.

[Commercial break]

KOPPEL: Mr. Miscavige, I must admit, I'm curious. You have been the head of the Church of Scientology now for what, a little over 10 years?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Not really the head there, but certainly a senior Scientologist, yes, Ted.

KOPPEL: Okay. During all that time- you just told me again, earlier this evening, you have not done any interviews.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No.

KOPPEL: (A), tell me why, and (B), why now?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Why now? Okay. Why not. Let me tell you something, I once added up all the press that had been written about me before the first reporter called trying to speak to me, and from around the world, it stacked up to four and a half feet. By then it was myth and legend. And then only on one or two occasions can I think of that somebody has asked to speak to me, but never to interview me, it was always, "I want to ask you about some allegations." And to that degree, I'm not interested. I gave you the story about this reporter. Quite frankly, from my view, a lot of the people who have written stories on Scientology are doing it from a certain pitch, they already have their story somewhat made up, they've already made up their mind. It's a waste of my time, I have to be honest. Why now? It's live.

KOPPEL: Okay. It is live. As you know, initially, I mean, we wanted-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: And you asked.

KOPPEL: -that's- well, we certainly did. We asked, and we have been talking to each other now-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Sure, absolutely.

KOPPEL: -and negotiating now for about nine months.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: That really has never happened, Ted.

KOPPEL: Initially, we wanted you to come on because you folks were really upset about that cover story that Time magazine did.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes.

KOPPEL: Now, a lot of people have been upset by stories in the press about them. Certainly a cover story has more impact than just any old story in a magazine, and Time is a big magazine, but one might argue that your response to it, your reaction to it, was huge. I think Forrest said you spent $3 million in USA Today alone, with some of those full-page ads, double-truck ads, that you ran. Didn't you also run some TV ads and radio ads on that?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, nothing on Time. And by the way, when you say the $3 million, that- there was an advertising campaign. You have to understand, the first three weeks of it were about the Time magazine and correcting the falsehoods on it.

KOPPEL: All right.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: That was a campaign that ran for 12 weeks. The rest of it was attempting to inform the public of what Scientology was.

KOPPEL: All right. Now, I told you, we've got to take a break in exactly one minute, so I may have to cut you short if you go longer on this-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay.

KOPPEL: -but why were you so- what was it about the Time magazine story that so upset you?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Because it wasn't reporting on anything, it was an attempt to cause something. Richard Behar is a hater.

KOPPEL: Behar.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Behar, he had done an article on Scientology three years earlier in conjunction with the Internal Revenue Service, the man was on record on two occasions attempting to get Scientologists kidnapped. That is an illegal act. When you get somebody like that doing an article, you're not too interested.

KOPPEL: All right. Let's leave that hanging in the air, and I promise we'll come back to it-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay.

KOPPEL: -I think both you and Mr. Behar deserve more on that subject. I'll be back in a moment.

[Commercial break]

ANNOUNCER: A Conversation with David Miscavige now continues. Here again, Ted Koppel.

KOPPEL: As you can see, our hour is up, but (A), the opportunity to talk to Mr. Miscavige is such a rare one, and (B), we really do have some issues that have been left hanging, that we're going to go a few minutes over our allotted time. You made the charge a moment ago that Mr. Behar at Time magazine, the reporter who wrote the cover story for Time, that he had, what, conspired with someone to try to get someone from Scientology kidnapped?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, no, he was- he had written an original article and some people had called him up and he was telling them to kidnap Scientologists out.

KOPPEL: He was telling them to kidnap Scientologists.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes, and get them forcibly deprogrammed which, according to Ted Patrick, who was the father of deprogramming-

KOPPEL: All right.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -it always includes kidnapping, usually assault and battery and certainly with the intent to commit a felony.

KOPPEL: All right. Now, kidnapping, as you well know, is a federal crime in this country.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, let me tell you something, there is one person who he used in that article that was- to be asked of him to infiltrate at our church in New Jersey. He didn't quote this in his article. I didn't find out until actually about a month ago, and the person has just been arrested. As a matter of fact, four people from this same group I mentioned at the beginning of this show have just been put under arrest last week for forcible kidnapping of persons from another faith. You have to understand something, Ted. These people that he aligns with, this Cult Awareness Network, which every one of these people are a part of -

KOPPEL: Although I told you during a break that my producer told me in earpiece right after it, I was going to leave it alone, that all of those people maintain they are not in that cult awareness group

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, no, they don't, because I'll tell you right now, I spoke to- well, that's just not the case. But in any event-

KOPPEL: Can we stay on Mr. Behar for a moment?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -absolutely.

KOPPEL: Because you have made what is really a very serious charge, and that he was involved-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, he admits to it.

KOPPEL: -that he was involved in kid- I'm sure he doesn't admit to being-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, he admits to wanting to get a Scientologist kidnapped.

KOPPEL: -to being involved in kidnapping. That would be a very serious admission, as you well know.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: He absolutely admits to wanting to get a Scientologist kidnapped, that's in your Washington Post.

KOPPEL: So why didn't you bring charges against him?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: He didn't succeed. He didn't succeed. Our point is this- Ted, Ted, you're missing the point.

KOPPEL: As I said to you before, there is such a thing as attempted rape, attempted murder, attempted kidnapping. It's also a crime.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah, but they didn't make it. They didn't make it. I mean, the point is this.

KOPPEL: That doesn't matter. It's still a crime.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. The person would have to bring charges. I think you're really missing the issue, Ted, because my point is this. That man represents himself as an objective reporter. Here he is on record a full three years before he wrote this article, stating that he felt Scientologists should be kidnapped to change their religion. Second of all, let's look at this article, and let's not fool ourselves. It wasn't an objective piece, it was done at the behest of Eli Lilly. They were upset because of the damage we had caused to their killer drug Prozac. They set up that article, they used their advertising dollar to force it to run, and that's the facts.

KOPPEL: All right. Now, if that is the fact, you're a careful man, I'm sure that you have evidence of that.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, here's what I do have of that. I do have a man here in Washington, D.C. named Duffy Wall, another one named Walter Moore, these are lobbyists for Eli Lilly. We have Burson Morstellar, the PR firm for Eli Lilly. The reason I'm saying this, you have to understand, this isn't my charge, I'm telling you what they say. After that article came out, they were around town here saying, "We caused that article on Scientology on behalf of Eli Lilly to help them out."

KOPPEL: You have affidavits to that?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Let me tell you what else I have.

KOPPEL: You have affidavits?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: From them? Of course not. You think they'd admit it?

KOPPEL: Well, I mean, you're-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: But they're the ones who said it.

KOPPEL: -you're saying they said it, I'm trying-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Let me tell you what I do have.

KOPPEL: -go ahead.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I go one step further. I then later found out - and you didn't know this - that Eli Lilly ordered a reprint of 750,000 copies of Time magazine before it came out, reported in The Washington Post. But most importantly, here's what I do have. I put in a call to the people, the advertising firms, who set this up. I called up JWT, J. Walter Thompson, in New York. I spoke to the CEO. He said he would look into it and get back to me. He never did. I called up a man over in England who owns all these advertising and PR conglomerates for Eli Lilly, a man named Martin Sorrell. Ted, I asked him 10 times on the phone to deny that he had set this up on their behalf. He wouldn't do it.

KOPPEL: All right-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: We put in a call to Eli Lilly. Their response was, "We can neither confirm nor deny." This is a pretty heavy allegation I'm making. I'm only making it because what I heard from their people, and they won't deny it, so for you to challenge me on it, you have to understand, they're not challenging me on it, and furthermore, our story that came out in USA Today covers this entire matter. They haven't called me once to correct any fact in it.

KOPPEL: When you say your story, you mean your advertisement.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, there was actually an insert in there that laid out the entire way that that came about.

KOPPEL: Let us get back, during the few minutes we have left in this broadcast, to discussing Scientology a little, and I made a suggestion at the beginning of this program, or near the beginning of the program that, in order to progress within your church, it costs money. Right? If I'm poor, how far can I progress?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Pretty far.

KOPPEL: How far?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, I'll tell you this, by the time you started getting anywhere near the top, I guarantee you, you wouldn't be poor anymore, because generally people in Scientology do better if they honestly make it.

KOPPEL: But let us assume there are some folks out there who are just poor. They don't have any money-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: You know, I don't-

KOPPEL: -they don't have any friends or relatives who have money. Is this the right religion for them?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, absolutely. This is the right religion for anybody. In Scientology, you're dealing with yourself, you see- here, we have this in common with all religions of earth. All religions of earth try to help man to be better, and to cause him spiritual improvement. Now, most- in the Judeo-Christian society, they say if you have faith and you live your life that you'll achieve spiritual salvation in the afterlife. We believe in spiritual salvation, but in the here and now. And that's what we deal with.

KOPPEL: I think both Judaism and Christianity, or the proponents of those two religions, would argue with you that they certainly set forth quite a number of rules and recommendations and-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, in the now, no, I'm not disputing that. I'm not- I am not-

KOPPEL: -and precepts for this world also.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -I am not trying to badmouth any other religion, and Ted, I would never do that. All I'm saying is that they have their way. What's different in Scientology is how we approach it. There are higher levels of awareness as a spiritual being, and that's what we're dealing with in Scientology. Now, for me to talk to you about this and for you to have a reality on it, I don't think I'm going to get that and I'll tell you why. You don't have a reality on it. You see, Scientology is a very personal thing. You ask why somebody would do it. I'm not making the claims for the church, Ted. Millions of Scientologists around the world are making that claim. You ask them, they are happier, they do feel they're more able, they do do better in life, they know it has helped them. They say it. You can't take that away, and just like I wouldn't take that away from any other religion, when somebody then comes about and says that Scientology doesn't do that, are they telling me I don't have my own feelings?

KOPPEL: No, I'm just asking you, and it strikes me as a reasonable question, but if you can't answer it, you can't answer it. But there must be a way of explaining, without going into any of the innermost secrets of the Church of Scientology - and I understand, your church has some secrets - there has to be a way of explaining what it is you do that's different.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: What is it that we do? That's not very difficult at all. We approach it on a one-on-one basis. There is absolutely a technology of Scientology. There's a philosophy which covers the subject of life. I started talking about communication earlier on. Well, of course, it covers interpersonal relationships, a million subjects. I don't have enough time all night to go into them. But separately, there is a technology that's applied to you as an individual, actual one-on-one counseling where you- you look- well, number one, you have to understand the first premise. You are a spiritual being. You look, you find out more about yourself, who you are, where you are, where you have been. A man who can look back and do that is a very courageous individual. A lot of that includes looking back on your own past and areas where you went astray. That's similar to other religions.

KOPPEL: It's also similar to psychiatry.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Listen, I'm not similar to psychiatry at all. I brought one piece of paper here because I knew this was going to come up. This is psychology, which covers the subject of religion. It's called "Religiosity and Pre-Oedipal Fixation"-

KOPPEL: Let me stop you one second. I just want to tell any members of our audience who may just have joined us and not have been with us, my guest is David Miscavige. You are now the head of the Church of Scientology.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes.

KOPPEL: Right. Okay. Please.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: This is what they say about religion. They say abstract- religious-

KOPPEL: Who is this again?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: This is out of the Journal of Genetic Psychology, this is March 1985, and I want you to understand why I don't like being compared to these people, because I'm in a completely separate realm. "Religious belief and observance derive from pre-Oedipal oral and anal drives, according to psychoanalytic theory, specifically belief in deity and such concepts as the afterlife are consonant with oral needs for nurturance from an omnipotent benefactor, coupled with the denial of death. Observance of ritual and particularly church attendance is a function of the anal need for regular activity and the anal compulsive need for regularity and repetitiveness." This is an offense to any religion. I am not like these people. We deal with the spirit, they say man's a body, we separate right there. We're interested in bringing persons to a higher plane, they deal with the neurotics. They want to bring them up and tell him how to solve his problems; in Scientology, Ted, we want to bring the individual up to a higher level ability so that he's more intelligent, he has better reaction time, he's more able and intelligent so that he can handle his life better. Now you've handled something.

KOPPEL: Explain to me - and again, going back to the pieces that we saw before and, by necessity, even though we ended up doing 15 minutes on these pieces, you end up compressing things.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Sure.

KOPPEL: And I don't want to lead people astray. Talk to me for a moment about the E-meters. Those are those handles that you see people holding in the pictures, and they are dealing now with an auditor, an auditor is the person who- this is the one-to- one-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, here's what happens.

KOPPEL: -yeah.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: It could be me and you sitting across from each other, maybe [crosstalk].

KOPPEL: Okay, let's say I'm holding the E- meter. What are you doing and what is that E-meter doing? What is it capable of doing?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay, what it is capable of doing is registering what's bothering you. It is a guide, it doesn't tell you anything, it doesn't yell out. Well, it's a meter there, and it sends a little electrical flow through your body. You're holding something there, very tiny, you cannot feel it. It shows a reaction. What does that reaction mean? That reaction just says there's a reaction. You thought something about it, or something that has some form of mental energy.

KOPPEL: A reaction to what, your saying words, and it's almost like free association, or- I mean, what am I reacting to?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Listen, stop comparing it to psychotherapy, because it isn't.

KOPPEL: No, no, I'm just asking. What am I-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: It is so- and by the way- okay, there are a million things you could do, but you take up an individual subject of a person's life. I'll bring up the subject of communication; if that isn't you, fine. People do have problems with this subject. Very specific questions are asked, the person answers them. He looks, answers the question, answers it, to handle areas of upset that are upsetting him. He knows when they are no longer upsetting him. He finds out finally for himself why they're upsetting him, and they no longer do. That is what's happening.

KOPPEL: What I'm still a little bit lost on is, presumably you and I could do that-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, absolutely.

KOPPEL: -right now, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, you'd have to want to participate.

KOPPEL: Fine, and- but why do we need that piece of equipment?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, because it's far more accurate. I mean, originally in Dianetics and Scientology, there was no meter, and you would look at a person-

KOPPEL: Okay. So what is the E-meter-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -and you'd look at a person, I will tell you-

KOPPEL: -because I'm looking at a needle sweeping across an arc, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -okay, you would look at the person and hear something similar. I can see your face flush, or I can see you cry, or I can see you smile. You can observe people, right? Well, not many people have an ability to do that, and plus, that is pretty crude. What this does is, when there's an area of upset, it registers. That's all it does. When the area of upset no longer exists, it doesn't register. That's all it does. It is strictly a guide.

KOPPEL: And what is the auditor- what is the auditor doing?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: The communication is taking place between you and I. You see, we're in there together. I'm asking something about you. You are interested in finding out something about yourself. I'm there to help you find that. But I'll tell you, here's where else we differ from psychotherapy, psychology. Those people would tell you, "This is your problem." That's a pretty arrogant position to take, for that person to tell you what's going on, considering every individual on this planet is different. Scientology, we show you a way to find out for yourself. And do you know who knows when you've found out? You do. And if this still doesn't make sense to you, that's because you haven't done it. I can't be more clear. First principle in Scientology, by the way, Ted, you should understand is, in studying the subject or practicing it, never, ever, ever believe it just because we say it's so. Only once you have experienced it yourself and you find this concept to be true should you then consider it to be true.

KOPPEL: Could you, just on the most basic level - I mean, you say originally it was done without the E-meter anyway - could you, on the most basic level, do it with me right now?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, absolutely not, because we're not in an environment here that is conducive to all the elements of auditing.

KOPPEL: Why- I mean, I'm perfectly comfortable here.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, here's why, because you're the interviewer here on the program.

KOPPEL: All right.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: And you're the one who's in charge here on the program, and you're interested in doing a program. That instantly throws out the first three rudiments to doing this, it's not something-

KOPPEL: Okay. Fair enough.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -as a matter of fact-

KOPPEL: No, I buy that. That's fair enough. One of the other- if you're not going to use the E-meter, though, Forrest also showed some of the people working with what, plasticine clay?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, there's a sort of misconception that comes out. That's part of the study technology of Scientology.

KOPPEL: Explain it.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: There's a study technology developed by L. Ron Hubbard. He isolated the three barriers to study. You see, there's a technology that helps you study any subject. One of those is not having the mass in front of you. I'll give you an example.

KOPPEL: Not having the what?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: The mass of an object that you're studying in front of you. A good example, here we are in the studio and we have cameras all over the place. Imagine you were going to school when you were 15 and you're studying up on cameras and you've never seen one, okay? You wouldn't really quite understand it too well. It'd be better if you had the camera there that you could do it with. Taking something more crude than that, where we're not talking about electronics, any given area of study, the ability to demonstrate in clay a concept in the paragraph allows you to gain a greater understanding of that subject. This is something that he asked me about in the intro. There was a piece on it. But generally what people do is, they'll be studying materials and then they will see if they really understand it by demonstrating it in this clay, and if they can make a three- dimensional figure of it, it often serves to clarify that concept and also show whether they understand it or not. And it's part of a study program, it's not a process of Scientology, we're not looking to make people better with this. It's strictly a way of studying.

KOPPEL: Why is it necessary, in order to progress, I mean, some of the sums that are charged, and I literally don't have them- it's not something I've tucked away in my memory, but we're talking about, in some instances, to move from one level to the next level, $7,000, $10,000, $15,000, huge sums. Why?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah, well, okay, number one, we certainly do have a different donation system than other churches, although not all other churches.

KOPPEL: Donation?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah, absolutely.

KOPPEL: You call it a donation.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, absolutely, because there's people there who are donating to the church, period.

KOPPEL: I understand, but are there people there who are making that progress- I mean, what, again, to get back to the person who doesn't have any money, what does he or she do?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: He trains in the subject of Scientology, and then audits somebody else, and he can be audited by that person, and that's free. You see, people like to pull out the sexy part, I'd like to point out, Ted. The people that are complaining about it in your intro, the one girl there that was complaining about it, a girl named Vicki Aznaran, which, by the way, this is a girl who was kicked out for trying to bring criminals into the church, something she didn't mention.

KOPPEL: I think what- I mean, you say a "girl," I think we're talking about a grown woman, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: A grown woman, excuse me.

KOPPEL: Yeah. I mean, and-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: A lady, Vicki Aznaran.

KOPPEL: -and you and she were at one point-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I know.

KOPPEL: -at one point rivals for the leadership of the-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I have no idea where Forrest got that from. Absolutely not. She violated the mores and codes of the group. She was removed for it. I was a trustee of that corporation. She knows it. The words she said to me is, "I have no future in Scientology. " She wanted to bring bad boys into Scientology, her words. Now-

KOPPEL: What you have just done is one of two things, and I'm not in a position to judge which it is. Either you have made an accurate charge against someone or, what a number of your critics and a number of the pieces that have been written about the Church of Scientology suggest is that when you have a critic before you, you destroy those people.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah? Well, let me tell you, that's easy to say-

KOPPEL: You smear them.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -that's easy for the person to say, but she's the one on that program smearing me, and let me tell you something else, this subject did come out before, Forrest did have it, I showed her deposition testimony, she admitted in there that that is what she was trying to do. She admitted that's why she was pulled out. The fact that Forrest didn't put that in there is extremely disingenuous. I'm not making any new charge against her, and let's not also forget the fact that she is trying get $70 million out of the church, and I think that explains 70 million reasons why she would make up something like that. I'm trying to get nothing from her.

KOPPEL: Has she sued the church?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Absolutely.

KOPPEL: For $70 million.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: For $70 million.

KOPPEL: Where does that case stand right now?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: The case'll drag on for years, it's just been dragging on and on.

KOPPEL: Then it's still in the court system.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Absolutely. Absolutely. But on the subject here, I mean, they bring that out. Ted, it's simple for people to say that, except I'm not out there leveling charges out of the blue against people. In fact, you've got to look at it this way. You've seen the amount of attacks leveled against my church. I haven't even bothered to come out to defend myself until this point, and I'm not even here to defend myself. But if somebody makes a move like that and they say something, and they have an ulterior motive, I think it should be explained. It's that simple. You had another example on there, a Roxanne Friend. This is a horrifying story. This girl was ill. I feel for her.

KOPPEL: Another woman.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Another woman on there, excuse me, excuse me. I don't mean to say that in a demeaning way, I'm sorry. She has a horrifying story of having an illness of cancer, and the word in there is that we didn't sent her to a church.

KOPPEL: To a doctor.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: To a doctor, excuse me. In fact, she's been to a doctor 220 times while she was in Scientology. In fact, when we sent her out of the church we asked her to please go to a medical doctor and see if something was wrong.

KOPPEL: The charge, as I recall it, Mr. Miscavige, is that with many of these people, not just with-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: No, no, let me finish this one. Let me finish this one becauseit's important.

KOPPEL: -not just with Ms. Friend, I'll let you get back to it in just a second, the charge is that you inevitably - I don't mean you personally, I mean the church - send people who complain of some illness to a doctor, but a doctor who is also a Scientologist.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I don't know where you got it, it's invented, I never heard it in my life.

KOPPEL: So it's- so if someone- well-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: First time I heard it.

KOPPEL: -it's not the first time, because you've read the L.A. Times series, and it was in the L.A. Times series.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Oh, if it was in the L.A. Times series, I didn't read that. Believe me, I don't read a report on Scientology from the L.A. Times to find out what it is, so I did not read that in detail.

KOPPEL: No, but you've got to understand what your critics are saying-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: This is not so.

KOPPEL: -about you, right?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: It's just not so. Not so at all. Just absolutely not so.

KOPPEL: Any Scientologist who wants to go to an outside doctor, no problem?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Anybody he wants. It's just an outrageous charge, I have no idea where it came from.

KOPPEL: Okay. The- what do you call the folks who are up at the higher level of your church, the ones in the uniforms? What is that-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Staff members, Sea-Org members of the church.

KOPPEL: Sea-Org? What does that stand for?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Sea Organization. Originally-

KOPPEL: S-E-A.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yes, from the sea.

KOPPEL: Sea.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. From the ocean.

KOPPEL: What does that mean?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, originally this group of people were based on ships at sea, and that's where the term Sea Organization came from.

KOPPEL: That was at a time when all kinds of folks were going after L. Ron Hubbard and he moved his operation out to sea?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Not because all kinds of folks were going after L. Ron Hubbard.

KOPPEL: Well, I mean, the IRS was going after him, weren't they, at that time?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, let me tell you, I mean, you know, I went through these earlier, you want to talk about them, it had nothing- there was no cause-and-effect relationship to L. Ron Hubbard being at sea and these people going after him and therefore he was leaving. But you want to bring out all sorts of faults. Ted, let's be accurate here. There have been attacks leveled against Scientology. They uniformly get reported by the media. The net result doesn't. Let me just go through them. I mentioned the Food and Drug Administration. They tried this case for six years, they lost. It was headline press when it came out. They lost the case, full religious recognition of the church. They passed their information to Australia. There was a full inquiry down there. In 1982, the court ruled in our favor and issued an apology stating that this was an embarrassing chapter in the history of that country. You talk about the attacks here. The real story is this, Ted. A new organization, there are new ideas in Scientology. These get attacked. It's not the first time in the history of the world that this has happened. This has happened to many other groups. This happened to Christianity. Bring it up forward to another religion, Mormonism, it happened to them. It happened to us. The attacks on us, though, I will say, in the last 40 years, are unprecedented and unrelenting, not even rivaled by any other group during that time period, and yet the Church of Scientology has survived throughout that entire time period, and grown and continue to grown- to grow. That is the real story of Scientology and the only way that can occur is if you have something beneficial to offer people, and Scientology does. You can talk about all of this, I can debate with you about that, you can go speak to a Scientologist which we made available to Nightline and ask them what it has done for them, and they do applaud it. The people who are detractors, anybody has critics. That's fine, and I don't- and I have to tell you, I don't mind somebody criticizing a valid fact in Scientology, Ted. I'll be the first one to deal with it. People within the church, there's various complaints here and there, little ones, I always investigate them.

KOPPEL: Can you understand-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: But wait, but what upsets me-

KOPPEL: -can you understand what- go ahead.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -is when one of these critics brings this up and your reporter doesn't mention the fact that they are suing, or the fact that they were removed- and I've shown deposition testimony. You see, it's out of the realm of what I'm saying, the fact that another man wanted to kidnap Scientologists, and I showed the documents to your reporter, and he doesn't put them in. My complaint isn't that the people said them. My complaint is that the reporter didn't give the motive, and he should have. He had it available to him and did not show it, it makes it seem like these people are objective. You want to go around and check out the controversy it's created in the media because, Ted, like I said at the beginning of the show, there are 100,000 Scientologists for every one detractor, and when you just show those people, well, they've picked up the lines, they're coordinated, they find all little buttons to press and they all say the same ones, and they're frightened. They're on the show. I spoke to Roxanne Friend over Christmas. I feel sorry for her, but you know what she said to me, Ted? She asked me at the end of our conversation, "Dave, please tell me, is it ever possible for me to come back to Scientology? " That's the real story, and that isn't on there.

KOPPEL: For every minute that we've spent in the report at the beginning, we have spent roughly five minutes now with you and me talking. I mean, you are, after all- we've gone almost an hour and a half [crosstalk]-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Very well, and I appreciate it. That's right.

KOPPEL: -aren't you capable of responding? I mean, you keep saying, "Why don't you go talk to the Scientologists?" You're the head Scientologist. I'm-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, you have to understand this, if you want to understand what benefits people in Scientology, I can give you my own personal thing, but what I am not going to do here is tell you- I am not going to make claims for other people. What I'm telling you is the best evidence is the successes of Scientology. Do you want to hear about mine?

KOPPEL: Sure.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I came to Scientology, I was a young man, I had an acute case of asthma, I had been to doctor after doctor, nothing could cure it. My father heard of Dianetics and Scientology, took me to an individual. I was with him for an hour, I used exactly what anybody can read in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. That asthma disappeared for three years. I say three years because I'm not going to tell you it went away forever. After that, it came up again and I dealt with it, and I don't have it now. I do five miles a day. I just don't have that. Is that the greatest thing it's done for me? No, but at that point I certainly knew- I certainly knew it was something beneficial. I knew it. It's a personal story. What it has done for me since then is just fabulous, but that is my own personal story. That is what the story is of Scientology. The successes are endless, Ted. You see, we talk about these- and that's why I was concerned about such an intro piece. The story- 100,000 people off drugs, that's help, that's good, I can give you these statistics.

KOPPEL: You were talking before about Narconon, right? Narconon operated in Oklahoma, correct? The state of Oklahoma said illegitimate group, tossed you out.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, there you go, now we're going to bring up a new allegation. The state of Oklahoma-

KOPPEL: Well, isn't it true?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -no, they didn't, they didn't toss it out. It's still there and that's in the court system. In fact, what happened, Ted, is that various doctors came in to testify. The leading drug rehabilitation experts in the country came in to testify-

KOPPEL: Well, who was-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -let me finish.

KOPPEL: -who was opposing it? Who was trying to get it out?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: The psychiatrists. The mental health board. The leading doctors across the country, Forrest Tannen, another gentleman whose name doesn't come to mind right now, testified in behalf. All the testimony on the efficacy of Narconon program was all in favor of it. Studies have been done, governmental studies in Spain, in Sweden, found Narconon to be the most effective drug rehabilitation program in those countries. One man came in, a psychiatrist, he made statements about the program, that man was also on record as stating - and it's a man named Dr. Gellian West - out at UCLA, he stated that living a drug-free existence is an antiquated position in today's society. The judge in that case ruled that having that man talk about our drug rehabilitation program is similar to asking Saddam Hussein to report on the treatment of the Kuwaitis in Kuwait.

KOPPEL: So why is it still in the court system?

Mr. MISCAVIGE: The mental health ward is the one who ruled on it, and we couldn't understand the findings because all the testimony was positive. Both health inspections they passed, and then at the last minute these mental health people denied it-

KOPPEL: Just-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: hang on, I gave you the story, though. You want to know?

KOPPEL: -sure.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Just like the FDA, just like that, we get a level playing field, Ted, it always comes out. You're bringing up Narconon now, but you know-

KOPPEL: No, you brought it up, that's why I raised it.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -well, I didn't bring up the Oklahoma matter.

KOPPEL: That's correct.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: And you brought that up.

KOPPEL: That is correct.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: You want- you know, if you- I could have been on here two years ago and you would have brought something up, and it's over now. There have been these cases, but in the end, we come out on top, and I'm telling you, Ted, there are a group of people on this planet who find us to be a threat to their existence, and they will do everything in their power to stop us. And that is the mental health field. I didn't pick a war with them. You can ask them if they feel this way, and they will tell you that.

KOPPEL: One last quick area I want to go into. Explain to me what a "clear" is.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. Well, the first book, Dianetics, talks about the mind. And the subject of the mind, well, you have a mind, and I did this with you before, but anybody can see what their mind is. Their mind is composed of pictures. Close your eyes, look at a cat, and you'll see a cat. And those pictures you're seeing are your mind. There's your- there are parts of this mind. If you use your analytical mind, which you do your thinking with, which is very analytical, a perfect computer is a good analogy. And there is a reactive mind, and this is the mind that kicks in during any moments of trauma, stress, unconsciousness. It is recording a series of pictures of these incidents. Unknown to the individual, at a later time, these incidents that are traumatic can come back and affect the person, affect his rationality, affect his happiness. This is where you find the cause of a person acting the way he doesn't want to.

KOPPEL: Where-

Mr. MISCAVIGE: A clear is-

KOPPEL: -yeah.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -a clear is eradicating that reactive mind, so the person no longer has matters like that not affecting him.

KOPPEL: Clears don't get colds.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Well, I don't know that clears don't get colds, but-

KOPPEL: L. Ron Hubbard said clears don't get colds.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: -back in 1951, L. Ron Hubbard, I believe, said in that book that- postulating that a clear wouldn't get a cold, so again, you're taking a line out of context.

KOPPEL: So clears do get colds.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: I guess one could.

KOPPEL: Okay. In the few seconds that we've got left - we've got about 45 seconds left - we've heard a lot from you and I understand there's a lot more to be said, but why is all of this a religion? And you're speaking now to a great many people out there who have a different concept of religion.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Yeah, well, unfortunately, we've talked about a lot of allegations, and it's tough to describe a subject when you're dealing- when you get hit with a litany of accusations at the beginning you're trying to deal with them. Why Scientology is a religion? Religion is about the spirit, and Scientology deals with the spirit. We are in the tradition of the much older religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, helping the person as a spiritual being improve himself. That is what religion is about. That is why this is a religion. It doesn't fall into any other field.

KOPPEL: And on that note, David Miscavige, let me thank you. I appreciate very much your joining us.

Mr. MISCAVIGE: Okay. Thank you.

KOPPEL: Sunday, on This Week with David Brinkley, the New Hampshire primary, with Democratic presidential contenders Bill Clinton and Tom Harkin, and President Bush's campaign chairman, Robert Teeter. That's our report for tonight. I'm Ted Koppel in Washington. For all of us here at ABC News, good night.